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Minutes for the July 10th Planning Committee meeting. Taken by Devin. Edits available if I missed the point of your comment.

Snuggles, Andy, Rev Dave, Dave Diller, Smelly, Niki, Liz K., Devin, Emily, Jill, Mad Hatter, Dinah, Rumrunner (L), Victory (L), Yeti (L)

Reading of the Agenda
Brief Review and approval of minutes: Dispensed by vote, unanimous consent

Ticket Sales - Spring plan to revisit to place dates earlier for theme camps.
Per Ben, Fall dates are to continue using previous dates.
August 8th, September 10th

Alternate Vendors at PDF: Should we allow alternative vendors to deliver and serve on sight?
Smelly: Because of previous lack of problems caused byy vendors, perhaps this
Jill: Difficulty in finding vendors in advance. Perhaps create time frame for vendor deliveries.
Hatter: Parking and gate needs to know that a delivery is coming. Reccomended policy: Notify parking/gate in advance that a delivery will be coming, with a time for delivery, so gate/parking can be prepared.
Dinah: Alert gate, no vendors allowed on site unaccompanied by a ticketholder
Snuggles: Motion to consider- Anyone who is expecting a vendor must pre-register the name and delivery time of the vendor with the gate, and agree as recipient to accompany the vendor in and out.
Hatter: Is this really a problem?
Andy: Case by case basis. This isn't a regular problem, but in the spirit of radical self-reliance we should discourage the community.
Smelly: Agree with Andy
Andy: How do we implement that?
Snuggles: Interact with the gate. Gate coordinator acts as point-person in <timeframe> of the event.
Hatter: Not a responsibility that the position should have added to it.
Jill: Camps should make use of the message board to inform the community in advance
Smelly: People might not make use of the board at the
Liz: Gate with the GoD being knowledgeable. Leave the onus on the participant to be there. Participants must give over id
Jill: Time for the meeting is a concern. Move that we write up proposals and vote on them next meeting. Hatter
Hatter: Tracking someone down if they don't
Jill: If the participant isn't available, have the vendor call their cell. If the participant still doesn't show, the vendor is turned away.
Snuggle: Reasserts Jill's motion. None oppose.

Potty Policy:
Hatter: Reads the Potty Policy as posted publicly on the PONY. Pottys cannot be behind the gravel road. PC would need to forward information to Heidi to make sure the themecamp is placed appropriately.
Hatter: Motions to accept as written. Passed unanimously.
Devin: Primarily a theme camp issue, let's incorporate it into the information/application for theme camps.
Jill: Will pass information to Heidi and Ben

Alternate Ticket Vendor Discussion:
Hatter: Reading of 'the bass' suggestion email.
Jill: Ed Contradictory had opinions on this also and without Ben or Ed, this should be tabled to following meeting.
Snuggle: Motion to table until a meeting with Ben present. Unanimous consent.

Motion for Skype to Phone adaptor
smelly: land lines are going obsolete.
Hatter: The skype to phone adaptor will allow us to use our current conference phone system using skype, rather than replacing the conference bridge with a VoIP enabled one.
Jill: Wanted Devin's insight
Devin: Be aware that conference bridge's don't operate as all lan line phones. just bought and attempted to implement a bluetooth to
Hatter: Reviews stated that it worked with conference bridges
Snuggles: Is it returnable?
Hatter: Yes. It connects to our normal free conference call number, but allows for them to use the internet to call into the
Motion to purchase adaptor and skype account. Unanimous consent

General pet ban
Rollcall vote:Snuggle: Aye
Andy: Nay
Rev Dave: Aye
Dave Diller: Nay
Smelly: Aye
Niki: Aye
Liz K: Nay
Devin: Nay
Emily: Abstain
Jill: Nay
Mad Hatter: Nay
Dinah: Aye
Rumrunner: Nay
Victory: Nay
Nay Carries. Pet ban turned down, remains a dog ban.

Hatter: Move to formalize fire conclave coordinator and fire drummer's conclave coordinator positions.
Hatter: We spoke with one person, have we talked with the other?
Jill: I don't think so.
Hatter: We should hold off on that position.
Jill: This boils down to Patty and Ludent getting reserved tickets.
hatter: Ludent has shown interest in the fire conclave drummer's position.
Motioned, unanimous consent.
Hatter: position now officially recoognized.
Hatter: Fire conclave coordinator:
Snuggles: We need to consider 2 people. Patty and Alana.
Jill: Patty has been doing this for years and if anyone deserves a reserve ticket, it is tthe conclave coordinator. Let's just formalize it. Let's just set aside for the safety coordinator, get this moved along.
Hatter: A coordinator requires aa certain amount os paperwork. Giving a position that they don't want might be an issue.
Jill: It's the position not the person.
Smelly: I'd rather have Patty have it, rather than
Snuggles: Motion to table. Passed.
Hatter: Motion to reserve a ticket for fire drummer. Unanimous consent

Open bodies of water at PDF
Hatter: Background, open bodies left unattended at PDF. Water as moop exists already in GUD. Uncertain about position as previously banned. Is it an allowable item currently?
Liz: It is considered moop at BM
Hatter: Not just allowed to dump. Must be evaporated out.
Smelly: Water section of GUD read - large water uses are discouraged. Should only be used when a plan to dispose of the water is in place.
Andy: We need to distinguish between a popup shower and a 200gallon kiddie pool.
Hatter: Do we need to distinguish? Are they both creating mud and moop?
Dinah: Popup showers should be used carefully. Larger pools should be banned.
Liz: I think we should consider water onto the ground as moop. We should strive to be a Leave No Trace event. We have 2 drains on site, we should encourage appropriate disposal.
Snuggles: I'm wondering if there is a way to put an amount to the water.
Hatter: the larger problem is the pools in general. The issue today isn't water moop.
Snuggles: The discussion was turning to the issue of wastewater, but we're supposed to be talking primarily about pools.
Hatter: The discussion was supposed to be about unattended open water pools.
Victory: The main point here is safety. unatteended kiddie pools. In the back field with water you're talking about slippage.
Devin: Need to be careful not to hit interactive water art projects off while we
Snuggles: The health issue is a very slippery slope. examples: Slip'n'Slide. The answer in the past has been radical self-reliance. If we're allowing that, we can't use health hazards as a reason to stop the kiddie pools. We allow unattended fires. The risks are similar, which makes it hard to hit them
Jill: Time warning.
Hatter: The thread asked for a proposal. 3 main thoughts: No Ban, Ban in Public Areas, Complete Ban. Motion to table until next meeting w/ proposals.
Dinah: A pool is something geared towards children. It is attractive and unattended. If we can't take care of ourselves,
Liz: Motion to Ban children.
Jill: Time.
Hatter: Motion to table, Unanimous Consent.

Parameter/Perimeter coordinator for the Burn
Snuggles: The rangers were originally the people who did fire perimeter and there was always some amount of conflict, as we're not enforcers, we're mediators. In an effort to maintain status as meddiators, a separate perimeter team was created. As a ranger coordinator, I love not having to become enforcers too. It threw a haze over our ability to be a resource. That said, the last 2 burns, the perimeter team has not been there, so we're back to having Rangers as coordinators. Should be trained in accelarants, fall radius, etc.
Jill: In essence, yes, we need someone to deal with the perimeter. I'll request potential coordinators, and then connect people with snuggles.
Snuggles: Please put in that we're only asking people to do it who have experience with this type of work.
Hatter: Jill will gather the people, Snuggles will make recomendation.

Ticket prices.
Hatter: Increase ticket price to $60.
Smelly: I think $50 is fine.
Liz: I totally agree that $50 is totally fine for PDF. If we raise that, we need to make sure the extra money goes to art grants.
Rev: What're we getting for the extra $10. We were going to $50 to bolster our finances, when we were doing ok at $35.
Hatter: I think we just went to $50. It's been less than 2 years since we went to it. I think we're fine, unless there is a dire need.
Jill: The reason behind this is because of the recession. By going to $60, we could increase the hardship tiickets to help out those of us that need it.
Snuggles; I don't know what the limit is for hardship tickets. We should be talking with the board about this before we go ahead and set aside more hardship tickets. Do people even know that they're available?
Rev Dave: We have never hit the hardship cap. I would ask that we not increase prices until we have a site and know the costs.
Jill: Ok, let's kill this one. Motion to kill. Unanimous Consent.

More Potties?
Snuggles: I don't know if more potties is the answer, but for those of us who have to pee while it's dark outside, it can be a horrible experience. I'm not 100% sure if it is the number, but if we increase the numbers, it can't hurt.
Liz: Agreed. If we could take the same number of additional potties that would be added, and instead place them in the back field, if it needs begging with the Vets, it would be a big benefit.
Hatter: Some of the ones in the front are usually cleaner/underused. We might just need to shuffle them. We probably do need more. As for moving them to the back field, the vets say absolutely not. So long as there is no road, there can't be potties.
Jill: Site design. Unless PDF is willing to put up the money to put a road in, it won't happen.
Liz: Have people talked with the vets about the road option and is that something that they're open to? Do we have anyone in the community who could
Jill: I spoke about this with Rev Dave and Buddy (Board Liason). Buddy asked about whatever happened to Radical Self-Reliance and didn't want to take it up with the vets. For now, we should install 5 additional by the barn.
Hatter: It is time and labor intensive. It isn't a work weekend project. Liz: Can you research if someone in the community has the capacity to do it?
Jill: We should sent this question back to Dave.
Smelly: The vets hay the field during the times of the year when we aren't there. If it's active
Jill: They're moving away from farming and want to do more events. The events are more profitable. I believe tthis is something that they want to do; if we can bring the volunteers and they can get the gear.
Victory: I'm with Hatter. the front were much cleaner. We should shift them for the next burn and see if that makes a difference.
Liz: I will do some cost analysis to find out how much it would cost to lay a road. The potties infront of contact/BCDC could be split.
Hatter: It looks like we have 3 different proposals: Add a road and put potties in the back, just add additional potties and position them near to the back, shift the current population of potties.
Victory: We should add it as a question for attendee feedback "
Jill: I propose that we get 5 more potties for barn and stick them back by the barn and revisit this next meeting.
Hatter: We must post for the next meeting. Motion to table - Unanimous Consent

Mud at the back spigot:
Hatter: The mud by the Dusty Swan is problem.
Snuggles: The vets came up at the past burn and pointed out that the water at the front spigot is seeping under their new patio and cracking it. We need to either put something up by a spigot, or build the infrastructure to drain safely.
Hatter: Is there a way to lock the spigot so we can.
Snuggles: Not that I know of. Water is going into the ground too close to the patio in large enough amounts that it's
Jill: I'm wondering if this needs to be a vet problem, they do so much for us, but if they're going to have more events then they'll need to take care of this for them too. This may need to be longer term, larger problem. we can offer to help, but they now have a plumber in their crew. We can offer bodies and some money, but it is their land.
Rumrunner: We can just put a box around the spigot.
Rev Dave: We can move hoses around, or anything else, but its still a vet problem.
Hatter: Vet problem, until they tell us its an issue for us.
Jill: Time.
Snuggles: The vets did say that its an issue for us. Pineapple was sent.
Jill: We should put this out to the greater community.
Devin: A lock is easy to fabricate for the spigots.
Hatter: Can we lock them to the ground.
Jill: Candycane rebars to pin the hose safely.
Snuggles: Will that solve the back 40?
Jill: No, we don't have a place to run the water. the main showers drain into the creek. the barn water is supposed to go into a greywater holding.
Rev. Dave: Pineapple says they have a greywater holding tank. It looks like it drains right out behind it.
Hatter: Table until we can talk with the vets.
Jill: I tried talking with the Vet Liason, Dave Diller, can you talk with the liason?
Dave Diller will talk with Liason on the topic.

Art drop off.
Hatter: A place for artists to drop off art in advance of the event in the back parking.
Snuggle: How big an issue is this?
Jill: It would be nice.
Hatter: Tabled.

More help with Parking
Hatter: Can anyone think of ways to help increase the volunteerism re parking?
Snuggles: Tshirts with badgers on them. We all have the same problem with volunteerism. Too many no-shows. What I've seen that works best is to get currently active volunteers to bring in their friends.
hatter: I'll bring it up with Mary and we will

Work weekend:
Hatter: Can we replace it with a workday before the event?
Jill: In light of everything we've been talking about, maybe we should revisit this issue in the spring time.

Changes in parking and front gate
Hatter: Reference to the previously posting changes to parking and gate for fall PDF.
Andy: What is the fallback plan in the event of rain? The back entrance isn't usable with mud.
Jill: Sounds like something to talk with the vets about. Also, concerned about staffing 24-7 and not letting people in all the time. The vets voiced wanting new people/latecomers to come in at some point. Just worth running it past the events before the finalize this.
Snuggles: I have some concerns. Welcome speech only being done at the back gate, what about people coming in from the front?
Hatter: Nobody is coming and going from the front. All entrance through the back gate.
Snuggles: Concerned about having people coming in at 4am.
Hatter: Until we can fully man 24hours, this is the best solution we have. We can't have a GOD doing 6 2-hour shifts in a row. Every other event in the area closes the gate from midnight to 8am. We would need to communicate it effectively. If there are a huge amount of people who show up at 2-3am on thursday, we will make changes to allow for current arrivals.
Snuggle: We should first try to implement the methods to increase volunteerism.
Jill: We should wrap this up.

Budget proposals
Hatter: What is the first item on here?
Jill: The Medical Proposal. It comes to us from Rumrunner and Victory. If we have to pay these people to attend to us over the weekend, we couldn't afford it. They're offering to set up a MASH unit.
Snuggles: This is a touchy topic. this affects our liability insurance, so it needs to be referred to the policy provider, or we decide we want to take on the responsibility. What we have in place right now is Ranger HQ, always available to radio. It shouldn't be an issue to find a ranger.
Jill: We should have started this is Rumrunner presenting his idea.
Rumrunner: We're proposing having healthcare providers/ Blue Dots at a medical center. A central location for both rangers and attendees to seek medical help. I called for a blue dot at this past burn, and none came, an off duty came up to help. Under the good samaritan law, so long as you're volunteering, you're protected. I'm awaiting that policy to confirm the liability issues. If we do not provide care, we can be held legally responsible.
Snuggles: If people need bandaids, we have them at Ranger's HQ. We have ways of working around the liability if the person lacks certification. I don't think splitting them up will be part of the solution. I would rather merge the two.
Jill: This would be a centralized area. Either around the barn, or around participation station. Sometimes people track up to lizard's to get bandaids currently.
Snuggles: Disagrees.
Jill continues: This gives a centralized spot for new rangers.
Snuggles: all rangers are given training currently.
Liz: Other burns have medical stations set up. it's a valid proposals to set up something similarly at PDF. It gives more services and resources for the burn.
Devin: There are many of us
Smelly: Radical Self-Reliance - If you have to go through hoops for bandaids, you should have them yourselves.
Rumrunner: We're proposing should any uncovered shifts, that we will get this thing up and running. We will make this happen. we're both certified, we can handle the unexpected emergency. At the spring burn we had 2 people with heatstroke. They could have died easily.
Snuggles: A ranger was called on the heartstroke. The participant didn't want to go with EMS. There are occasional hiccups, but the procedures are working. there are reallyy hard-core medically trained blue dot rangers. We'd like to add to the rangers, it's 1:15 training, new medicals should join rangers. An ultimate goal of the Blue Dots is to make sure one is always on the radio and have 2 radios always available. I would like to propose that, instead of separating it out as a different thing, that Rumrunner, Victory, and I take this offline.
Rumrunner: We don't know if our liability covers this at all anyway. If we can't do it at all, no reason to talk about it.
Jill: We have medical professionals offering to set up a camp. I can't imagine why we wouldnn't want to do it. Combine it with the rangers if that's what has to happen, but let's take advantage of it. I've gotten heatstroke. We have to put everything aside and take advantage of it. Don't nix this. this is a wonderful thing. I can't imagine a gathering of 1300 people without a central medical facility.
Devin: Alot of the new people don't know where a Ranger HQ is.
Hatter: I want to reiterate that I think it's a great idea. If the liability doesn't allow it, we might not be able to. If they wanted to set up their own camp
Rumrunner: I'm still awaiting the liability documents. we're not trying to break off, we want to augment. There are a number of medical professionals who dont want to be a ranger, for whatever personal reasons.
Jill: We need to move on.

Volunteer budget:
Smelly: I'm nixing the volunteer party, but will do the buttons and laminates.

Snuggles left.

Lamplighters budget:
Liz: Limiting factor is now lamps. Down to 26 (from 30). 2 or 3 walked off. We have capacity to hang 46. The budget reflects not having to buy lamps for 2-3 burns (a 6 month leeway). Buying new globes lets us use some of the current, but broken ones.

Stage budget:
Matt: White noise on the stage. Hoping a power conditioner will get rid of the hum. The gear was a burden on our friends, so a uhaul will expedite.

Pony budget:
Jill: A little more money will
Hatter: Do you tell them how much the can spend?
Jill: First it was $700, now up to $1,000. I want to take it up to $1,200.

Fireteam budget:
Rev Dave We want 13 cords of hardwood. Combined purchasing with lamplighters for fuel. Factored in additional for wood in case of increase in cost.
Jill: A couple of years ago the vendor increased the price by $50 a cord unannounced. We've addeed in additional since then. Last fall did we have all hardwood?
Rev Dave: Hardwood.
Victory: Fall may have been mixed.
Jill: We ordered hardwood in the fall. Liz wants 16 cords.

WWW budget:
Dinah: $800, reading off the bbs.

Greeters, Parking, Gate:
Hatter: Do I need to go over this?
Jill: i've seen so many different prices on easy ups. Where di you source it?
Hatter: I wanted something commercial quality with an awning (incase of rain) and side wall.
Jill: Do you have details on the parking budget?
Hatter: Not a lot?Sawhorses to block off spots. Talked with Evl about it, but there isn't an official plan. Rather have it budgeted and develop to the number, rather than find we need something.
Jill: Golf cart. I'm against renting a golf cart. I'm totally against it. I think its going to be seen as an item of privelage, but that's my opinion.
Hatter: If you feel that its a privilege to run back and forth a thousand times, you're welcome to do it.
Andy: It's a resource. For someone who is on their feet for 6 hours, its a major relief.
Jill: Why can't you just use your own car?
Hatter: Driving your car around on site is a problem. It can't get into the smaller spaces. A golf cart can service the back 40s. Damage to the car. For $275 to not have to walk to the gate.
Devin: Getting hit by a golf cart, is still getting hit by a moving vehicle. It's happened to me, we don't want a kid getting hit. Also, what is to stop a theme camp from bringing in a fleet of carts?
Andy: Nothing is stopping someone from having golf carts on site.
Smelly stack: Valerie had her gold cart there. We drive responsibly
Dinah: the GUD says that we just have to follow the rules as we would on a public street.

Ranger budget:
Dinah: Slightly modified from the one in Jill's thread. Changed tshirt to reduce cost. Laminate, water, ice, snacks, standard supplies we ask for every time. 2 of our radio clips have broken, seeking a vendor for them, unknown price. Need uniforms, but we order at a large enough number so we don't need them each burn.
Devin: What's the cost for the new tshirts?
Dinah: $1,000 for 144
Devin: There may be better vendors, I'd like to talk off list to reduce costs.
Dinah: Email me using the BBS.

DPW budget:
Yeti: the budget has seemed to historically been $100 for incidentals. Does there need to be a detailed budget?
Jill: Because I hadn't heard anything, I submitted $200 for you.
Yeti: Thank you, it's a learning curve, help is appreciated.

End of Agenda reached

Schedule for next meeting:
Smelly: Next meeting should be August 6th or 7th. Can't deviate from that weekend.
Hatter: Not available on the 6th, would appreciate it on the 7th.
Rumrunner and Victory to host on the 7th. Yorkstown, PA.

Motion to adjourn. Unanimous. Meeting Adjourned.


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